3: Esther Ku. Comedian / Actor / Mango Farmer
Esther Ku is a comedian who's known as the "Asian Sarah Silverman." We did this podcast after she performed a sold out show at The Apollo Theatre. You've seen her on Last Comic Standing, MTVs Girl Code, Wilding Out. She also does Voice Overs for Family Guy. We talk about dreams, growing up with immigrant parents, and how Ku wants to lead a sexual revolution.
We talk about the difference between "urban" and "suburban" comics. How Ku was almost consumed by a religious cult (she was saved by a tie-dye shirt). Aaaand how men never buy enough groceries.
Check out Esther's podcast "Ku and the Gang." Check it out!
Yulia: [00:00:22] So I'm here with Esther Ku is a comedian she's appeared on Last Comic Standing and TV's Girl Code wilding out. She's often referred to as the Asian Sarah Silverman and she also has a really great podcast called Ku and the gang. That you should go download right now because it's really funny. And she interviews a lot of comedians. She's going to be on the podcast today talking about comedy, women, funding and diversity and probably anything else that is going to come up as it comes out. So the question that I always ask my guests is what was your dream as a kid.
Esther: [00:00:57] Well. My dream as a kid. I mean I don't know if I had dreams as a kid.
Yulia: [00:01:05] Awwww. How can you not?
Esther: [00:01:08] It's called immigrant parents. They don't let you have dreams. You're just supposed to like do this and do that. They're not really so keen on dreaming.
Yulia: [00:01:18] Did you ever have a dream to not have immigrant parents?
Esther: [00:01:23] Yes! When I watched sitcoms and they're all white. I was like I want a white family. Who like talk to each other. And have these like nice moments and full house. You know. You always think that like everybody else has it better, especially when you're watching it through the lens of a TV screen.
Yulia: [00:01:41] So I'm an immigrant too. I grew up in Moscow and I moved here when I was 10.
Esther: [00:01:45] Yeah, but I look more like an immigrant than you do. Even those I was born here.
Yulia: [00:01:47] It's true. But like I moved here when I was 10 and then I have like a single mom and a grandma so my life is also different from American life right. Automatically. I think it's interesting what you have as a dream and what your background is and what contributes to your dreams and what you're allowed to envision for yourself. Right. Because it depends on like what you allow yourself to dream. When I was a kid I wanted to be an anthropologist or I wanted to be an archaeologist. And my mom and grandma were like Please do not be an archaeologist you're going to spend your whole life digging in some dirt you're not going to find anything like you're really creative. Let's just have reading books and drawing. Just just go be creative. Which was really great because they supported my creativities. You know I wasn't allowed to do anything besides being a kid which in retrospect I'm so grateful for.
Esther: [00:02:39] Yeah. You're so lucky. I had to be a mother when I was a kid.
Yulia: [00:02:42] That's probably the reason why I don't have kids right now because I was allowed to just read a lot of books and be creative and express myself. I think that's what made me an entrepreneur. Just being allowed to explore. But what did you want to do as a little kid?
Esther: [00:02:57] Well I mean I grew up in a super strict religious organization so my dream as a kid was to save the world from eternal damnation.
Yulia: [00:03:08] Can we talk about that please.
Esther: [00:03:10] Yeah. Sure. Like the church that I grew up in, they put this burden on you like you have seen your classmates from hell basically by bringing them to Bible study and to Jesus and to salvation and the truth. And all that.
Yulia: [00:03:25] So you were on a mission to save the world!
Esther: [00:03:29] Well to save Jesus's lost souls, I guess. You know redirect people to a life of serving God.
Yulia: [00:03:38] How many souls did you save?
Esther: [00:03:41] I don't know if I even saved half a soul. I mean, I brought people to like bible study and stuff , but it's hard to get them to stay because they did some weird stuff.
Yulia: [00:03:50] They didn't want to stay for Jesus?
Esther: [00:03:52] No I mean like you lure them in with food and then you're like surprise! Jesus is here, you know. So you lure them in with friendship and like camaraderie, you know?
Yulia: [00:04:04] Jesus is really hot.
Esther: [00:04:07] Ummm.
Yulia: [00:04:08] He's sexy! He's got those abs.
Esther: [00:04:08] Well, those are just pictures. In real life, Jesus was actually a slob.
Yulia: [00:04:12] Was he?
Esther: [00:04:12] He was a little overweight.
Yulia: [00:04:12] You think?
Yulia: [00:04:16] So this got into like religious territory for a while so let's bring back into the comedy experience. You are on a last comic standing. What advice do you have for people who want to get into comedy?
Esther: [00:04:27] Well you know it's funny because people think that you just get a manager. And they're like, "I need to get a manager and then I can do stand up comedy". It's like, no. you have to do standup and then get a manager. Right? But people. There are a lot of people who want to do comedy. Actually every year all these like comedy classes. They're filled. There's people who just want to do it just to like get their speaking chops up, you know? And, but people. The way to do it is just constantly go out every night and do comedy shows.
Yulia: [00:05:02] Right. You have to get out there.
Esther: [00:05:02] It's just to be at the comedy clubs in the bars and the restaurants that do comedy shows. It's to just constantly get out there.
Yulia: [00:05:12] Well, it's like the Beatles. the Beatles just worked their butts off that's how they got really good. They were paid in booze and like women so they just played all the little tiny English clubs. And That's what made them good and then eventually they were able to step up to a global stage. You don't just get up on the stage and are great.
Esther: [00:05:28] Yeah, you do like the small tiny rooms all over the place.
Esther: [00:05:32] Yeah, and you build up an audience.
Esther: [00:05:33] And you travel everywhere. And I remember like my first few roommates. Like, I think they hated that I did comedy because I wouldn't be like home in the evening to like watch TV with, you know? Like when you're living with just one other girl, like they you don't like you when you do comedy.
Yulia: [00:05:48] I don't think anybody likes it when you do stuff. I think people become very resentful if you're doing stuff. So I don't think it's just comedy. I think it's like if you have other things that you're working on and you're focused it makes other people feel bad because they're not doing enough. So it makes them resent you in a weird way.
Esther: [00:06:03] Wow that is so true. Unambitious people don't want to be exposed to ambitious people.
Yulia: [00:06:08] I think if you're ambitious you want to be around people who are ambitious because they'll inspire you. I think it's OK to have dreams and I think it's OK to be ambitious and especially as a woman. So OK. So from a comedy club audience point of view what do you see as the difference between male and female comedians.
Esther: [00:06:26] From the audience point of view. You know what, the audience, they're used to more male comedians. Because there just are more male comedians and females comedians. But. They I think. They're so used to the male model of a comedian. That sometimes when a female goes up, I feel like the room is sort of hushes and people are more tuned in. Because it's like oh okay. Oh yeah, another guy comedian. Another white guy comedian. Oh. Oh my god this person just looks different. They're the other sex. And so I think sometimes people sit closer, on the edge of their seat. Sometimes I find when one a woman is on stage because it's just so different.
Yulia: [00:07:02] That's interesting.
Esther: [00:07:03] It's not the default. So I think as a female comedian. It's easier to grab the audience's attention because they're just like oh visually you know I'm used to 1 1 1 1 1 and then we have zero here.
Yulia: [00:07:15] Right. It's like if you just present something that looks visually different people kind of naturally just perk up. So that's interesting. You say your material is considered controversial. Or it's claimed to be which I think it's rather silly. I think it's really interesting that a lot of people you as a controversial woman because you talk about things like race and sex which a lot of other comics talk about and it's not that controversial. It's just controversial because it's coming from a cute little Asian girl.
Esther: [00:07:41] You know. Right. I never thought my material was controversial. I just did what I find funny and I think some people grow up in an environment where they don't make race jokes. Like growing up in an immigrant family, race jokes are inevitable. We're constantly making fun of our parents for the way they talk. I made fun of my brother because he was born in Korea and I was born in the US and I was like oh I'm better than you! You know. So for us growing up like we're always making race jokes and in a church there's like all kinds of races: Filipinos, Mexicans, you know, Polish people, Italian people, black people. They would all come to the church so it was super like international. So I feel like you know let me talk about race. And I'm making fun of Asians so it's like there's tons of how many Jewish comedians are there making fun of the Jewish culture.
Yulia: [00:08:33] Oh, Hello on Broadway. Which was fantastic. Everybody should go see it.
Esther: [00:08:40] You know what, like Asians. They think that like it's not good for them, right? They get upset by movie, Crash on the way that that Korean lady was portrayed in the movie. It's one character in a movie but they're like "Oh they portray Koreans in a certain way". Like, maybe that's just that one lady. That doesn't mean every Korean acts like that. I think Asians always are so paranoid like we don't want Americans to look at us like we're a certain way. So we always have to be such a model minority. And it's like, it's okay if one of us fucks up and becomes a comedian and talks about her vagina on stage. It's okay. There's tons of good Asians who are doctors and who make good money and, you know, went the right path. It's alright. It's not so embarrassing, but they want to disown me.
Yulia: [00:09:30] They do? Do you want to talk about that a little bit more?
Esther: [00:09:36] I mean sure why not.
Yulia: [00:09:37] I mean do you really think they want to disown you? Do you have a large Asian following actually as an Asian?
Esther: [00:09:42] No, I don't have a big Asian following. I don't. The Asians who follow me are more like the punk rock Asians who have sort of like you know denounced their parent's heritage like I have. You know. The ones who like break apart. Because a lot of Asians can be really just like stick to their own kind and they're only friends and only marry other Koreans or other Japanese people or something like that. They can be like a clique
Yulia: [00:10:05] Well I think all religions are like a clique. You know you're very diverse because you speak Korean. You also speak fluent Spanish obviously fluent English so you really bop around different cultures and you have that global awareness where a lot of people are just you know white people speaking English, hanging out with their white friends and you have also African American communities who are very insular as well. As well as Asian communities as well as Mexican. It's just comfortable to be around people your own way because it's what you know and it's easy. But you realize that once you get out there and you become friends with all these different cultures and all these different people it's just really fun because everybody is the same at the end everybody has the same values and everybody has maybe a different outlook on life in some regards. It just takes effort to get to know other people and be open to other cultures and either you take that initiative or you don't.
Esther: [00:10:53] Well I think it's to do a lot with people's childhoods also. If you grew up in a super insular. In some little town in Wisconsin where it's all white people, it's hard to go out there be like like, "I'm going to go and make a black friend". Right? Because there are no black people there. It's all cheese heads. You know. So I think I grew up with a super diverse way because we just recruited everybody in the church. Although they would give you more points if you were like North American like blonde hair blue eyes.
Yulia: [00:11:26] Oh my god.
Esther: [00:11:28] Yeah you would like get more points than if you brought in a Mexican or Filipino to the church.
Yulia: [00:11:31] So that's so messed up was there like a star system like a charm we get like a golden star. That's so messed up.
Esther: [00:11:37] I mean, there were charts for like how many books in the Bible you read, but that chart existed in our heads. Yeah. Definitely.
Yulia: [00:11:43] So how did you leave the church?
Esther: [00:11:48] Well. You know how I left is I was 17 years old. And when you're a 17 year old girl.You don't like anybody telling you what to wear. Right? Anybody who tells you what to wear is the enemy. So mom and dad. Maybe teachers who are like stop hiking your skirt up. And for me, it was the church. And they would tell me what to wear. And I went to a prayer meeting one time with this tie dye t-shirt on. And they freaked out. They were like what, the devils gotten into her.
Yulia: [00:12:09] The devil wears tie dye, by the way. That's the number one wardrobe choice.
Esther: [00:12:17] But this was like my chemistry project. And I was like just proud to wear it. And it was colorful and it was fun. And they freaked out. They shoved me in the bathroom. They were like we have to put on..we have to give her a blouse to wear. She's wearing a sinful shirt. And I was just looking at myself in the mirror like what am I doing? What am I letting these people tell me what to wear? I want to wear whatever I want to wear. Because I didn't know like the implications of like the drug culture to tie dye and everything. So i just was like, this is my science project. And after that day I was just like I'm not going to let anybody tell what to wear and what not to wear. And just I vowed to myself. I'm like. If that's what this requires to like stay in this church, then I'm out.
Yulia: [00:12:55] Your colorfulness was coming through and it was not going to be stifled. You literally were like I'm going to shine with every freaking color of tie dye under the rainbow.
Esther: [00:13:04] Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of embarrassed that it took me so long. Like I was 17 when I was left. I remember going dress shopping with my Bible teacher. And I was buying a graduation dress. And she wouldn't let me buy anything that was flattering on me. If I put it on and we were in the dressing room, and it like showed off my hips or something. She'd be like, "No, no, no". Like, because you're supposed to like cover up your body and not try to like tempt boys into liking you. When you're in your 20s you, it's just constant bombarding .
Yulia: [00:13:34] It's just constant bombarding walking down the street in the morning or being in the grocery store.
Esther: [00:13:39] And then guys will get mad that like we didn't respond or we're not really like into them. But they gotta understand that like. We get hit up so much.
Yulia: [00:13:49] And wait. You got that crazy text message that we were talking about yesterday which was hilarious which is a prime example of men hitting on us and us turning them down in a nice way.
Esther: [00:13:59] I'm not nice about it. I enjoy being not nice about it.
Yulia: [00:14:02] Oh my god that text message yesterday was hilarious. You were reading it out loud and I was on the floor laughing because it was ridiculous.
Esther: [00:14:10] Yeah i know. This comedian was texting me. He was like, "Hi. How are you?" and I'm like okay is there something you want?. You know. Like I don't have time to be frivolously texting like this just to check up. And he starting going off like, "you're being a cunt. You're such a bitch." And I'm just like What? What is it what you want? What are you texting me for? I'm in the middle of a million things.
Yulia: [00:14:25] And you get called the C-word by not even like doing anything automatically.
Esther: [00:14:36] I texted him, "You're mistaking my funniness for cuntiness"
Yulia: [00:14:37] I think it's so funny that men expect things out of us and they always want to be in control. The minute we assert individuality they're not really happy with it. It's like they want everything on their terms because they're giant children and it's never compromised it's like you text me now you come over now.
Esther: [00:14:55] And they never buy enough groceries. Like when I go grocery shopping, I spend like $300 and I buy food for the whole week. And I plan meals. And I have fruit and beverages and everything, right? I'm thorough.
Yulia: [00:15:02] Stop doing that. Stop enabling.
Esther: [00:15:10] When guys go grocery shopping they buy like one loaf of bread and one carton of milk and one box of cereal.
Yulia: [00:15:15] So you start buying one carton of milk and you start doing that what they do because you know what you're enabling them to keep on creating the same behavior over and over and over again. And I think as women we are enablers in a weird way. We like if you treat us a little shitty we might let you treat us a little shitty because it already happened once and we like you enough to just like look the other way. And go OK well maybe this won't happen again. And like so it sets up behavior patterns which you should not acknowledge.
Esther: [00:15:46] I didn't know this was turning a therapy session.
Yulia: [00:15:49] Oh no!
Esther: [00:15:50] How much do I owe you, Dr. Yulia?
Yulia: [00:15:51] No, this is a therapy session for me because I'm talking about this and I'm figuring this out for myself because I think I myself am an enabler in a lot of different you know friendships relationships work things. There's a lot of stuff like that. But let's talk about diversity again so you cross over many cultures. You speak english korean Spanish. You just did a show at the Friars Club the other day and then you sold out the Apollo Theater the next night. What's the difference between an urban comedian and like a suburban comedian. Let's just call them suburban comedians. Suburban comedians including you know Jerry Seinfeld Louis C.K. Amy Schumer. You know, why don't most actors crossover? Why aren't other actors who kind of like are in-between. Like you're an in-between actor right You go from both worlds.
Esther: [00:16:34] Well. I go to both worlds because I think the urban comedy scene, the audiences are just lit.
Yulia: [00:16:43] Yes they are. Aren't they? They're so present.
Esther: [00:16:44] You know? Yeah. Like. Its just so. The energy is just so much higher.
Yulia: [00:16:51] They actually feel things.
Esther: [00:16:53] Whereas you do the mainstream comedy circuit. And like they're nice and yeah they give you applause and stuff. But they're not like howling laughing, like dying, keeling over their chairs laughing. You know, So. That's why I like oscillating between both of them.
Yulia: [00:17:09] It's fun right. I like hanging out with people who enjoy themselves. You got to have fun in life. A lot of people don't let themselves have fun. So do you think that comedy can bring people together and create a better world?
Esther: [00:17:22] I think comedy definitely helps people take a break from reality. You know like when you're constantly seeing all the bad news of who got killed and who got shot on the news. Like comedy helps lessen that. This constant bombardment. Now we see news everywhere. Like on Facebook, on Twitter, on any app you go, you're bound to see a headline. 394 killed in this, this and that. And so it's a constant bombardment of like negative information that's it's really hard to take in all that, you know and to say, holy shit like what the fuck. This world seems like it's coming to an end sometimes. When you just are focused on the news. And I think comedy let's people take a break from that reality. And let's us laugh. And enjoy, you know, stuff that we can all relate to. They should be paying us more is what I'm basiccaly saying. More than journalists.
Yulia: [00:18:15] Journalists don't make that much money to begin with. Poor journalists. We don't invest enough in the education of our society. So we don't invest in the things that actually do good. Most of our taxes go to war. I mean frankly if we start looking at it that way I want to talk a little bit more about funding. I'm not even sure how to phrase this question but when it comes to funding, Amy Schumer just made the top five comedian list. I thinks it's the top five right.
Esther: [00:18:37] First female.
Yulia: [00:18:38] First female. Yes as a woman. I think she just made $17 million. The top is Kevin Hart. I think he tops at like 87 mil and Jerry Seinfeld is somewhere in between. What do you think it's like to get funding as a woman you know for shows and everything like that. How do you get to Amy Schumer level?
Esther: [00:18:55] Well you should be asking her that. I'm still on this level. I guess. You're just constantly, having to put...invest in yourself you know constantly meeting people constantly introducing yourself to people and not being shy, "Oh i'm writing all these jokes and I'm performing nonstop. Bam bam bam bam bam bam bam. And then you forget about the business side. And you just look at some comedians who are so talented. Like, if they just like little bit more business sense, they'd be killing it, right?
Yulia: [00:19:20] It's so true because it's a fine line between creating content and getting the content out there it's like you need a promotional company. You need somebody else doing it for you because you should be focusing on your craft and just producing your craft and somebody should be helping you just pump it out there like a really good manager. What advice do you have for using technology to propel your brand?
Esther: [00:19:39] I guess just not be afraid of technology. Like whenever something new comes out I check it out and see like. Ok wow. Alright theres Snap chat out. And I like snap chat and it's fun. And it's fun to do the filters. But, for me, I like Periscope better because it allows you to be on for more than 9 seconds. And if i'm going to communicate with my followers, then i'd rather do it in long form. And be like hey whats up and sit there for 10 minutes and talk to them and give them an update or teach them how to make a key lime pie or whatever. Write a new song with them.
Yulia: [00:20:11] You use technology to get your comedy out there. Like what advice do you have for people who are branding, building a brand.
Esther: [00:20:19] I think just utilizing all the stuff that's out there right now. It's incredible what we have at our fingertips. And just to like play around with cameras and not be afraid of like getting in front of a camera because at first I was telling you how I went to China. And I was like, you know I went to China and did a show a couple years ago. I never even took video footage of me there. What was I thinking? Right? But I always just was like scared to get in front of the camera and start talking. And with Periscope, I've been Periscoping for a while now. And I'm so...it's just natural to me now with lots of practice. So I think at first, everybody's awkward on live video. And it takes some getting used to because you're like Ahh they can see everything I'm doing!.
Yulia: [00:20:57] In the end it's about creating human connections. I'm actually kind of nervous doing this podcast putting myself out there and doing all the stuff that I'm doing but it's kind of my mission in life and this is what I was born to do. And this is what I'm good at this is actually what I'm enjoying. Once you find something that you love the love will overcome the fear whatever fear you may have because you have a passion for it.
Esther: [00:21:16] And you just get better at it.
Yulia: [00:21:18] So what is your wildest dream?
Esther: [00:21:23] Start a sexual revolution.
Yulia: [00:21:24] You want to teach people how to be better lovers?
Esther: [00:21:27] Well. You know, I talk about masturbation and sex and role playing and having sex on stage very openly. So. I've just always, you know, since I grew up so repressed I just want to make it so not taboo. Like why does it have to be so taboo like there's tons of guys who go up on stage and tell dick jokes. The minute a female does it, all the guys are like, "Well that's all they do is jokes about their vagina!" It's like, you guys have been doing jokes about your dicks for centuries! And that's our correlating body part to your penis, so.
Yulia: [00:22:05] And those parts are really funny.
Esther: [00:22:08] Yeah, it's funny to talk about it. And to be, you know, so open about it. Because there's tons of stuff about vaginas that the world has yet to still learn about.
Yulia: [00:22:16] This is really controversial to bring back to religion. You know that the Virgin Mary is supposed to look like the vagina. She represents the holy divine which is the divine feminine. So apparently it goes back to the pagan days and stuff like that. But if you look at her she's got like a little hood and she has a little shroud and she looks like labia.
Esther: [00:22:31] She looks like a vagina!
Yulia: [00:22:32] Yeah but like you know she's glorious. literally. like our vaginas are the pathway to life.
Esther: [00:22:42] Does she wear pink? I always saw her in white. She should wear pink or purple.
Yulia: [00:22:45] But back to the sexual revolution like what is your dream?
Esther: [00:22:55] Well, my dream is... That's such a tough question.
Yulia: [00:22:55] Isn't it?
Yulia: [00:22:55] Yes!
Yulia: [00:22:55] But, you know what. It's good to visualize it and it's good to not overthink it and just spit out whatever is at the top of your head. My acting teachers is really great. I have like a few and she used to be a New York City detective and she used to say every time you say you don't know that's a total lie. You have to say the first thing that's at the top of your head because that's the truth. You always know you just don't want to admit it sometimes.
Esther: [00:23:15] Yes sometimes it's embarrassing to admit to people publicly what your dream is.
Yulia: [00:23:20] Right?
Esther: [00:23:20] Yeah! But the more people you tell, the better it will be for you.
Yulia: [00:23:25] And the more people will support it because they may have the same dream.
Esther: [00:23:28] You know because when I got laid off my from my day job. I used to sell pens. And when I got laid off I wrote a letter to all of my customers. And I wrote, sadly I'm getting laid off and I'm going to move to New York to pursue my dream of being a comedian. And like I didn't have to write that in there. I could have just said the company's moving a different direction they're getting of their sales force, you have to from a catalog now. But I decided to put that in there as my way of announcing to the world that I'm going to be a comedian. And I think that just me get my subconscious mind in order to go after what I wanted to go after.
Yulia: [00:24:11] Thoughts are things. I usually don't say anything unless I 100 percent mean it. If I say I love you I'm 100 percent devoted and I mean it and I know what that word means. If I say I love you I am very specific with that word.
Yulia: [00:24:24] You got that from that book.
Yulia: [00:24:24] I did. I love that book. I actually want everyone to read it. That's the number one book I think that book has changed my life. The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz and I give it out to all my best friends and has the four agreements which are really simple which is number one be be impeccable with your word. Number two don't take anything personally. And once you started doing that your whole entire life is going to change you because you realize not everything is about you. Usually it's about the other person it's not even you.
Esther: [00:24:51] That's what I tell people when they submit a complaint to me saying you're so mean. You know what? I have so many guys come up to me all the time, "you're so mean". I'm like i'm just being funny. I'm just ripping on you. Right?
Yulia: [00:24:56] Well you know what. It's whatever somebody hates in you is a reflection of what they hate in themselves. So if a person tells me something like Oh I don't like you because you are too bossy or you know your not chill enough or whatever it is it's not me. It's a reflection of whatever that person is not comfortable with in themselves that I in a weird way bring up to them as a mirror. So I'm not going to sweat it. Number three is don't make assumptions because you never know what the hell is going on. Ever. And number four as always do your best. Every project I approach I try to do my best. You know sometimes my best isn't good enough but it's OK. We can't be 100 percent all the time.
Esther: [00:25:43] Well, but the best is subjective.
Yulia: [00:25:43] What is your dream?
Esther: [00:25:47] Well my dream is to be the funniest comedian that I can be. It's always been my dream since I was probably in high school. I cut out like a picture of Jim Carrey walking the red carpet with his wife and I cut out a picture of my face and put it on her face. Because to me, in my head, I was like Jim Carrey is like the funniest comedian, back when I was 17 years old.
Yulia: [00:26:07] So yeah, Ku, here's to dreams and letting yourself dream big.
Esther: [00:26:13] You gotta be like Harold and the purple crayon. He didn't let anything get in his way of dreaming. He just took his purple crayon and he drew whatever he wanted to create. He flew away in a boat and he sailed in the moonlight. He just created his own world. THat's what you gotta do. I love that book. Roald Dahl. .
Yulia: [00:26:30] Roald Dahl is amazing right. Ku, thank you so much for being on my podcast. You are a rock star.
Esther: [00:26:37] Thanks for having me.
Yulia: [00:26:39] And you're also a brilliant friend and I love you to infinity and back.